Best nation and why?
What are your best nations, and why? Which nations do you play best with?
Numbians.... You can get a strong one-city eco at the start, and if you research com2 after civ1 your eco will be very strong.
Iroquois, Aztec, British and Romans are best for 1v1 because of ancient rax scout/raid.
In teams, Dutch and Nubians are good due to mass rares.
Thats it in a nutshell....;)
I would say Romans are great for 1v1s b/c of the free mil1, wealth income from cities, & uber HI, not b/c of ancient rax/raid.
Bird's right though. The civs he list are strongest. You might add Japs as well b/c of the very cheap & overproducing farms... an easy com2 in ancient that often wins games.
PERSIANS => ele humping
My three favorite civs in 1v1 right now are persians, lakota, and spanish. dance
In the new patch the Roman wealth bonus has been reduced from +15 per city to +10 per city. With +15 per city they were amazing!
Do you think the Japanese are one of the strongest civs? Most people rank them as an average nation. I'm not sure though.
I think the British are great - mainly because I am British bows.
Do you think the British are still one of the best teams on land maps? I know they're amazing on sea maps. I see Bird can play them really well when I see the recorded games.
Persians can boom nicely i have found, yes. But indians on water are pretty damn fun (and the free ele upgrade and no ramp cost is money).
With the romans and aztecs the free mil almost garuntees a faster classic and the option to rax raid early...and pwnz the ruins opf course. You can change your game to suit your opponent and nation, which i think makes them easier to work with. Aztecs, theoretically, are the best nation if you use them correctly....well so i have been told numerous times, and if you think about it, it makes perfect sense.
The free archer with the british is pretty nice and makes for easy ruins and an ability to fill your eco to a little over 100. They are a strong nation, esp on water. Also, with their +25% eco they almost get a free republic government while alos getting the benefits of the despot. Some have trouble filling their eco with this so it takes some getting used to. Frogman, when he was around and playing a lot, used them a considerable amount...and yes he pwnd....;)
And japs are definetly one of the strongest civs, by far. They can play any type of game and be strong. Their fish/farm production is too sweet and having the abiity to go to +145 food by 4 min is not bad at all. What i have found tho is that if your playing a guy like sims he will raid japs asap knwoing they will still be filling wood and food at 4 min......then its a matter of if you have a rax up. Ive found that if you dont have a stable or a rax up by 430 (at the latest) your in trouble vs these guys. When your getting raided remembing his eco is smoking along while your somewhat stagnant....and city fire does very little damage in early classic.
I'd say Dutch are very good on water. You can get a dock right at the start, so your food income will climb significantly faster, and the free LS forces your opponents to do an early mil1 or garrison fishermen, thereof slowing them down a good deal.
Well......dutch on water are very good of course, i was just replying to the other post about the brits. And i think we were talking about land maps.....lol.
And i rarely ever use my free LS for raiding his boats...id rather scout the water with it first....and pwnz the fish and find a whale. Ill raid with 2 LS or 1 LS and 1 HS at about 3 min or so, but id rather boost my eco and get the head start that dutch are known for, and the first ls helps with that.
1) Greeks... the knowledge headstart is awesome. Also the UU's are very very useful for that early raid. Although, they are very vulnerable to ancient raids /
2) Inca... the wealth is fucking awesome, loads of HC raiders (omg El Cap inca raid anyone?) also, not to mention that wealth for spamming scholars.
3) Koreans... they have too have some of the best defense in the game, the free militia just pwnz, especially when you utilize some of the free citizens (with each new city) for a hard raid, but usually it's better to throw those suckers on a mine for some quick HC.
comments anyone, also as to why these nations are also weak
Inca miners only get 20% relative gold income; it's not like they get as much gold as they do metal. The gold advantage is good, but it's not uber significant.
Yeah, Romans are strong in 1v1 mostly because of free mil1.
British is strong with double tax which allows mass archers (supplement with HI).
My favorite is Americans/Persians.
[quotef88951648b="Diveloperz"]Inca miners only get 20% relative gold income; it's not like they get as much gold as they do metal. The gold advantage is good, but it's not uber significant.[/quotef88951648b]
Man, check the game before posting info ! ! ! Regular Inca miners gather +10 metal and +10 gold.
Americans have had their +3 extra resources per barracks unit reduced to +2. If I remember correctly they've also had their free Science research removed too.
I think the Chinese are a great nation, mainly because of their instant citizens, merchants and caravans.
[quote50399bbbcf]The gold advantage is good, but it's not uber significant.[/quote50399bbbcf]
The wealth advantage is definitely uber significant. Not only do they get +10 wealth for each miner, their com cap on wealth is higher (I think +30%?- Sims might know). In games that go past IV where you have 3 mountains Inca are hard to lose with b/c of their huge wealth advantage. I love building the taj mahal w/ them D. It's like getting global prosperity w/ just a wonder 58.
Ame are very strong if they get TCA and can get to IV. From I-III they're pretty weak and are susceptible to raiding. Along w/ the +2 res./rax unit they get a free scholar w/ each uni built. This is basically free +-50 wealth for every uni. Check bird & my game against killa/beertender for a good example of ame.
I really like Chinese (I used to play them tons in v-ron). They have a great sci2 start, the UU LI after III are awesome, and the large cities are a significant deterent against any early attack (allowing you to get to III). They're very flexible in that they get a fast start, raid well, boom well, and border push well.
[quotefd411db811="AU_sims"][quotefd411db811="Diveloperz"]Inca miners only get 20% relative gold income; it's not like they get as much gold as they do metal. The gold advantage is good, but it's not uber significant.[/quotefd411db811]
Man, check the game before posting info ! ! ! Regular Inca miners gather +10 metal and +10 gold.[/quotefd411db811]
Ya inca are definetly a solid nation and i think its 33% extra cap for wealth. The constant HC going to dif rare spots, mines, woodcamps etc, is hard to fend off considering to counter HC you need other HC or the much slower HI. Also, even if every HC dies that you send in your getting 25% back so its not all bad. And your definetly right, its pretty tough to lose with inca after GP. Wealth is usually around 200+ at 15 min or so where most other nations without water are at about +100-120.
Damn, the amer...i havent played with them in probably 6 months or so. They got labelled the best nation right away so i thought using them would hurt my ability to learn, but now after a little more experience I should try them. And ofcourse they got drowned with last patch. Do u rax raid with amer early?...or build up eco and boom up in age then build the TC...or both maybe..lol.
Id have to say for me...the best 1 vs 1 nations would be Iro + Rome. Even tho there are a few others than come in pretty damn close liek french, aztecs, dutch, inca. Ahhh, I guess you could go on and on about these nations tho....but i honestly am surprised you would prefer persians over Iro Bird, or even rome or nubians for that matter...but hey i guess thats why im still learning.
Well of course in a real game I bet bird would pick Rome, but for fun is another matter (don't you feel dirty if you pick Rome in a 1v1?).
[quote3210252c66]persians over Iro [/quote3210252c66]
Though I'd probably pick iro, persians are actually a good matchup for them. Persians have no wealth probs on land or sea, they're pretty tough to raid (cause of ranged HI to kill cav), and you gotta mention the eles of course. Against iro if you can stop the initial army raid or attack you should be able to outboom pretty easy....
Those iroq snipers pawn your Persian eles and cities in enlightenment. But Persians are v good.
I don't see near enough iroq sniper spammage those things rule enlightenment age I used to play them just get to enlight playing defensive then ambush - take enemy cap - snipe all their cav - game over. 8 snipers with General vs fort = no fort.
Americans were brilliant for a rax scout with the free sci 1 as you'd sci 2 then get a rax up. Not sure what folks doin now with em...
Heh, well 8 snipers w/ general v. anything is a dead anything usually D....
I usually attack in III & IV or jump to VI w/ persians v. Iro. Start in III w/ mostly HI, FA, LC, then transition to Ele/LI in IV. Fighting in V you get pawned unless you drastically outnumber him. Key being you need to get at least a minor share of ruins, and stop his army raid, neither of which should be a problem if you go early rax, scout w/ 1-2 LI & have decent micro.
In the bird/tl v. kill/beer game killa pawns my persians w/ iro on outback. His ancient raid hurts but not too bad considering I have good fishing going. In V he snipes the shit out of everything I have. Thereafter he gets pawned by bird's masses of ame LI allowing me to rebuild and participate in a minor role to bird's pawnage. It's a fun watch if you get a chance. In one of the AU v. AOI cup games I played iro and sacked a city w/ a despot rush, then boomed to V and used around 8 snipers to pawn armies & cities D. The other AU v. AOI game shows how iro can get pawned early as bird comes from the pocket w/ romans & kills my wing basically.
Saw the kiwi game - one of our better recs methinks.
Going all out in gunpowder following a lengthy ancient raid sounds evil. It's losing eles to snipes is the BIGGIE, damned expensive... Holding the line as Persians in Enlightenment makes a lot more sense than hoping for far superior numbers. Ancient then Gunpowder then Industrial attack - to be safe...
By blowing a fort with snipes I mean the one defending enemy Capital, mere seconds later - no fort, no city, no tower - army runs in cos theirs is bigger - no cavalry, hehe.
Well I love Persia but I would pick Iroq over Persia every day of the week.
Still, those ranged HIs are pretty evil for attacking, and if you get an advantage (i.e. failed Iroq army raid), you can turn around and attack the Iroq with your UU-based army with some good results (sometimes...) And of course if it's on water Persia is uber.
Free Tax Uber - not familiar Persia on water - give us a build start plz... D
@ Pond, i actually still ancient raid with america usually but it isn't really a good idea... I just like to do it because i'm on the aggresive, i'm aging earlier or at the same time as him with more ruins =)
So in II you can then get a load of units with your free despot and start army raiding (you were on the aggresive right away)
Beers comment about ancient raiding w/ Ame made me a think... Has anyone tried ancient raiding w/ Indians? Arguably you should have extra wood (cause of the non-ramping cost of farms) for the rax. w/ an HI to raid & 2 LI to scout you should get enough ruins to make up your costs as well as force the opponent to build a rax early. If you could stay on the aggressive maybe you could get to GP where Indians shine w/ those free ele upgrades?.... I ask cause I been getting pawned in II & III w/ Indians ;(.
Americans are good if you can hold well to classical and start building a mass HI/FA army. You get resourses from the army while it is good for defense against offensive nations or for attacking economic/defensive nations. And Americans have one of the best GP attack with free Monarchy/Democracy (I prefer healing of the President), cheaper unit upgrades (its very expensive to upgrade to GP units), and free gun infantry from TCA.
[quote92f9d5977a="AU_tl"]Beers comment about ancient raiding w/ Ame made me a think... Has anyone tried ancient raiding w/ Indians? Arguably you should have extra wood (cause of the non-ramping cost of farms) for the rax. w/ an HI to raid & 2 LI to scout you should get enough ruins to make up your costs as well as force the opponent to build a rax early. If you could stay on the aggressive maybe you could get to GP where Indians shine w/ those free ele upgrades?.... I ask cause I been getting pawned in II & III w/ Indians ;(.[/quote92f9d5977a]
Hmm, good point. I think I'll experiment with this.
I don't think the non-ramping cost of farms makes that much of a difference. It saves you, what, 40 wood? Raiding with Aztecs saves you 108 food (variably) for mil1 and some more for the free LI.
I actually never use the monarch with america...
1. Healing of your troops in the field, you can't just put em in a castle or something cause then your econ is away.
2. You want to build those units extra quickly for a better econ + larger army
3. Cheaper upgrades
4. The rest of the Democtacy advantages =)
I'm a great fan of the Indians. You can spam barracks, etc as well as silos and airbases in the end game.
I know Elephants are good against HI, but what do you guys think is the best combination for an Indian army? E.g. The best combination for the Romans is HI and HC.
HC and Eles works + Monarch + two tactic researches + 3/4 Cannons = GG no re
Ya, what beer said. Basically if you can get >7 eles + 2 tactics research + a few LI killers it's gg D. Problem being that until you get the 2 tactics you're pretty weak /....
Inca p4wn in noob team games as pocket. P
[quoted485e1b31b="AU_tl"]Ya, what beer said. Basically if you can get >7 eles + 2 tactics research + a few LI killers it's gg D. Problem being that until you get the 2 tactics you're pretty weak /....[/quoted485e1b31b]
Best way to stop eles is forts and towers, and by skipping the enlight age by teching ahead the age before. 5 spies is not a bad idea as defence.
[quote89095983d9]Best way to stop eles is forts and towers[/quote89095983d9]
You find towers worthwhile against them Jups? I typically bring 3 siege & that reduces cities & towers pretty quick. For forts, I usually just skip the city that has one.
Best way to counter elephants is lots of spies. Just have to micro light infantry well to take out all enemy scouts. Of course you should keep going toward VI as the same time to get out of the elephant ages.
Why not use artillery for taking out scouts? When ever my opponent is keeping his army back while I seige I start seiging his infantry instead of his city. P
it works on masses only i think
and in noob games with sims and doggy
58 58 58
Noobs! Horse Archers, Horse Archers, Horse Archers.
Yeah he's right ;) I use them a lot aswell =) Problem comes when the oponent with persia/india has some li aswell... That makes pretty quick work of those Ha's =/
The British would be good vs Persians. The unique FA could counter both the unique Persian HI and Eles. Plus Britain would have a wealth advantage.
Artillery can take out hidden spies ;)
[quote35a87100f4="Militant"]The British would be good vs Persians. The unique FA could counter both the unique Persian HI and Eles. Plus Britain would have a wealth advantage.[/quote35a87100f4]
really, v 6+ eles in enlight with +8 armor, only defend and get to indus
[quotede6b26d088="TwC_ñuuK"]Artillery can take out hidden spies ;)[/quotede6b26d088]
Really? Take them out after a scout or lookout reveals them, or?
[quotea68180177a="TwC_ñuuK"]Artillery can take out hidden spies ;)[/quotea68180177a]
rofl, thats genius! so now i can even kill spies i cant see!
Ya sweet Killa.....gg no re for you..... GG
You just have to be fast to click on your artillery and B to bombard ground. A spy usually dies from 1 shot
rofl, yea, I saw him do his hax already. thats cool but it wont work against a bunch of spies /
I don't get it.... How do you know where the enemy spy is relative to the positioning of the rest of their army? Normally it's not directly behind....
Uhoh did Pondy start a war???? banghead
Random question but... Beertender are you German?
Another Q for everyone, what nation has the best unique units in the early game? Say up to Gunpowder Age. Maybe Romans with the HI?
Probably roman HI or french cav. Iro HI are great as well considering they aren't visible in home territory giving you a free ambush + forced march w/ despot.
[quote0eaac9273a="Diveloperz"]I don't get it.... How do you know where the enemy spy is relative to the positioning of the rest of their army? Normally it's not directly behind....[/quote0eaac9273a]
When a spy starts bribing, you see a faint outline of it.
I'm dutch unsure
Militant, there is no - best nation, best strat - best units. There is a counter for everything.
If you want to win you got to learn to play.
There are best nations - BHG can't create every nation 100% equal. I know what you mean though...
I win most of my games tbh... but like to see what other's opinions are.
Fair enough. Just heard these questions long time ago from myself...
Certain nation/map combos are definately advantageous - add the right rares and u're cookin. Sometimes it all sux... lol
the best nation is clearly korea. not only because they can repair without penalty but also because i get them all the time. and then you have the cheap towers so you die even slower.
[quote0980882824="AU_Rambozo"]Militant, there is no - best nation, best strat - best units. There is a counter for everything.
If you want to win you got to learn to play.[/quote0980882824]
Good point Humble. The best way to learn about the nations is to simply play them all. I mean i love Iro and Rom HI, but id go up aganst them with Indian/persia eles anyday. As ram put it, everyhting has a counter. Thats what needs to be learned to become as skilled as a tl or a sims. Raid and attack with Micro, micro, micro = pwnage.
[quote0980882824]lolz knobi[/quote0980882824]............rofl roll roll
I must rewrite the build and destroy article that got lost in web fuck ups. You're exactly right Pondguy, micro micro micro, extensive game knowledge, ability to think on feet, god this game is hard, i may as well give up lol
I doubt sims likes to raid and attack i spose he likes sitting on his ass and booming while wolf and bird clean up the oponents better ;)
Oh and then in V he starts thinking hmmm lets pwn the oponent ^_^
Yeah I try to do nothing for 5 ages, when I realize the other two can't win 2v3 I decide to attack.
[quotec942b32821="AU_sims"]Yeah I try to do nothing for 5 ages, when I realize the other two can't win 2v3 I decide to attack.
Unless you are Iroqouis or japanese? lol
I think I remember a game when you were against a Greek wing vs AoI where you simply built troops and sent them saying bumb rush lol
Well if you get Iroq vs Greek... GG
mmm... i would like to say
Mongols the landmass food income and the quicker raids and one of the best to make micromanagement.
Americans Overpowered nation, cause they get +3 of food, timber and wealth for every ground unit, goverments free, instantly wonder and a lot of goods.
Japanese Good food income, the best for rush.
I play in random... so i dont know exatly wuts the best... think like this " All the nations r the best, if u know how to play with them"
Take lakotas and raid the Eco Buildings because they plunder them.. Example If u move a Sunka Wakan and atack the granary u will get food.. if u atack a lumber mill u get timber..
If I remember correctly you get something ridiculously bad like 1/2 a unit of resource for each arrow that hits the econ building. I forgot what the calculation was, but I think you'd have to have your unit hitting a building for a few minutes before the cost of the unit was paid back.
Better off using your HAs to kill villagers.
Yeah... somehow.. it takes time