Player Speed (again...)
Rambozo
18-03-2005 12:11:28
OK. I know you uber guys have faster speed than me but as I've proved to myself over and over I can still keep up with you producing econ/military if I wish (well so close that it doesn't justify why in same length game you have 2 times my speed)
Sooo, what are you doing that knocks your speed up.
I theorise it may be uber scouting and battle micro.
Thing is, there's only so much movements you need to build up.
I thought perhaps you had one of those little wooden birds that swing back and forth on a stand and it pecks the tab key lol
If this extra speed is scouting and military type micro then player speed must be the exact thing I need so I can spank you'se all!
Any other 'good' and I do mean good players who have average speed 30-40ish when playing 20ish minute games? We could swap notes.
Also, you guys who know you're fast, is there a common element (previous game played) or method/s you use to up your game speed?
I know there was an early star wars game niDe and Req played that they reckon helped. What was that game?
KIWI_Rootfifth
18-03-2005 13:54:23
im at a noob 50 to 55 speed (...but ive heard some ppl cheat by like clicking like 10 waypoints for a villy from tc to a wood camp, imo thats pretty retarded tho
KIWI_Rootfifth
18-03-2005 13:57:39
altho a good way to see what the hell is that they are clicking is, when u watch a rec, bring up the achivements menu (right at the start of the game)and watch where it logs the speed as the game plays, that will give u some idea of what is going on
TheGoodEvil
18-03-2005 14:16:21
speed doesn't win games but it certainly helps, i've seen games that players with half the speed beat a much faster player.
it has to do a lot with luck of the draw and timing. you do some a lot of dope though but i put you in my boat... i think we just suck (
TGE
TheGoodEvil
18-03-2005 14:18:50
[quote2cbb2e4287]but ive heard some ppl cheat by like clicking like 10 waypoints for a villy from tc to a wood camp, imo thats pretty retarded tho[/quote2cbb2e4287]
Yeah in WC3 there is tons of what seems like very useless early clicking... they do absolutely nothing but click and click and click things... really helps APM but is really pointless imo.
TGE
Rambozo
18-03-2005 14:27:05
I am in loads of games where slow player (me) canes faster player.
So, how do I get fast heh heh.
AU_DreAdKnIGhT
18-03-2005 16:48:03
i think that playing Warcraft III really helps my speed coz WCIII needs good micro to win. I was like 70-80 when i played ron b4, but after i play warcraft III, my apm is like 120+(i never spam waypoint), when i go back to ron, i think ron is too slow for me and i can get like 120+ in ron.
KIWI_KiLLaHerTz
18-03-2005 23:52:20
some very serious poll answers uptill now P
Beertender
19-03-2005 01:11:01
i've got about 80/90
Player speed i think comes from good micro... And from scouting/ spending recources and i think thats about it...
TwC_ñuuK
19-03-2005 02:44:30
mine is from 95 to the maxium of 120 /
Goofy has over 140 most of the time shock and Mulf was almost 50% faster that Bird in the rec where he plated vs Bird (but he is noob on playing ron and plays every nation the same P )
AU_tl
19-03-2005 10:35:48
I'm about 110 most games. When tired about 90. Speed is important but it's what you do with it that counts....
Beertender
19-03-2005 11:27:31
Yes indeed, its just gay to try to get as high a player speed as possible...
Lol well i lost but my player speed was twice as high!!!
AU_sims
19-03-2005 14:25:14
I'm usually down in the 70-80 range. A lot of times I am too lazy to micro unless it is a critical battle and I just use attack move. Also, I usually lead on hotkeys which also cuts down on clicks.
Speed is good, but being productive is more important. That said, if you're down in the 40 range...you might need to do some more micro, cuz even a lazy ass microer like me gets 70 dance
TheGoodEvil
19-03-2005 14:48:16
speed also depends on who you're playing. if you aren't playing someone that's aggresive then you won't need to micro that much.
if you are playing an aggressive game then you will have a very high speed even if you don't think so because you are forced to do more sooner.
speed in games under 15 minutes between aztecs and iro are usually very high because you are doing much more than say a game with maya vs india.
TGE
Rambozo
19-03-2005 14:56:52
True
I get 80 plus vs niDe or tl. Cos I know I gots t work.
A lot of games I'm so relaxed it's silly, completely bombed drinking coffee and smoking/rolling cigarettes in game so half it's played one handed.
Who's tried practising on fast then returning to normal. I have done slow drills as I learn/develop strats. Could this (a lot of it) have slowed me?
I'm certainly not concerned of my movement efficiency, just te speed.
WH_demoneyekyo
03-04-2005 21:40:36
before i leave...........it was about 120-140
TWC_Jups
03-04-2005 23:40:42
im often about 50, i can't think quicker than that.
TwC_ñuuK
03-04-2005 23:55:35
[quote395eb2b464="WH_demoneyekyo"]before i leave...........it was about 120-140[/quote395eb2b464]
and how much of it is spamming? P
KIWI_Rootfifth
04-04-2005 04:50:15
[quote98298b5e50="TWC_Jups"]im often about 50, i can't think quicker than that.[/quote98298b5e50]
omfg jups, im so glad u said that, im about 55, i cant imagine wtf are the ppl clicking that are around 80
Beertender
04-04-2005 09:09:34
Eeergh... I like to call it micro =P
And ofcourse teh scouting ^_^
KIWI_Rootfifth
04-04-2005 10:18:22
but u shift + scout, a few clicks and the scout does the rest
TwC_ñuuK
04-04-2005 11:48:06
Ruin manipulation adds me like 90 speed @_@
well some korean WC3 players have far over 300 =), imagine that
KIWI_Rootfifth
04-04-2005 13:40:38
how do u ruin manipulate? i just press shift + v lol then shift+/
Rambozo
04-04-2005 13:54:12
I think half their speed is bollocks in conclusion rooty.
Game last night all players 80 plus speed. Me 35.
Kills is like 20 - 30 apiece and mine
Rambozo - 122.
Why be clickin shit all over the place unless it does something heh heh.
KIWI_Rootfifth
04-04-2005 16:25:52
lol nice
AU_sims
04-04-2005 16:31:12
i use infinite queue all the time, could never figure out how that figures into the speed calculation. all i know is it makes my unit production a lot more efficient.
[quotebdba5d6493="AU_Rambozo"]I think half their speed is bollocks in conclusion rooty.
Game last night all players 80 plus speed. Me 35.
Kills is like 20 - 30 apiece and mine
Rambozo - 122.
Why be clickin shit all over the place unless it does something heh heh.[/quotebdba5d6493]
damn no more noob games ok dance
Rambozo
04-04-2005 20:39:18
knew you'd say that P
Was all inters. Unless I lose or play 2k ish players I normally got a excellent kill ratio. Vs French it's different...
Some things I think add to efficiency and lessen speed.
Infinite q, waypoints for scouts and in fighting. Using mini map a lot. Hotkeys. Combining hotkey mini map and interface when executing multiple commands.
Home key, shift key.
ps Had 3 noob games in vaniila as nothing else around and went on plus 2 handicap. My kill ratio average over the 3 games was 401. lol
AU_knobi
09-05-2005 04:05:44
idea
i was playing wc3 too and it really helped my micro (coz thats what the game is about).
i was always to lazy or doubtful to "spam" waypoints, switch from unit group to another, circle production buildings and all the other apm crap.
then i hit lvl20 and i couldnt go on. some clan mate of mine (lvl22) then started to fake apm and 2 weeks (and 100 games?!) his lvl improve to 32... (lvl refere to patch <1.5 patch). i just couldnt beat him anymore oops
he said raising apm is about being busy all the time. you start spamming and just klicking around. once u get used to do a certain amount of actions, the game seems to become slower (sounds weird, but thats how i felt it).
youll keep up the speed but do more and more useful things in between the spamming. u can get into the flow of pure ownage micro!!!
its important that you really keep the level of actions at the same ratio all time !!! theres no use in starting with 400 apm then going down because you forget about it. you actually have to concentrate on keeping the apm high, that makes your game more fluent because youre much more concentrated. to bad speed alone cant compensate a lack of knowlegde or experience
twisted
but try it out, i garantee game improvement in whatever rts game 8)
my 0.02 €.....
Beertender
09-05-2005 06:48:32
Nice, never looked on it that way =)
In ron you can play fast speed then though =)
Rambozo
09-05-2005 16:03:57
Totally true. If i make a concerted effort to haul ass I play real good my problem being always stoned and forget to continue hauling ass.
Guess there's a bunch of 'things to do when there's nothing to do' might help players keep at the micro.
ie Find rocks and good defensive positions in case of invasion. Waypoint villy scout, check enemy activity, get any mil units either raiding or scouting. Assess potential city sites, check on econ balance, get more merchants out. Turn small cities to large, econ enhancement buildings, more scouting, more scouting. Defense, offense, econ. Scholars, vans, econ, raiders, etc
What else please add to this. I fugure I lose when I start going - 'what's next' and the other guy is already doing it....
Watching fast experts keep themselves busy has got to help. the old 2 villies scouting and every unit up to different shit is typical of Frogman and he aint no noob P
TwC_ñuuK
09-05-2005 20:18:35
I had always like 65 apm in WC3 but could win 3 out of 4 +20 lvl opponents )
In RoN after wc3 and changing hotkeys I can get up to 140 APM nowadays )
Beertender
10-05-2005 00:18:12
Damn i still use the defaults P
Goofy
10-05-2005 03:08:26
Before I started playing WC3, my speed in RoN was about 80. After I have played WC3, I have played only a few games of RoN, but in those games, I have had 200+ speed. Much of it is spamming of course, but it does really help you concentrate. In RoN you dont really need that high speed though as micro is not very important, unlike in WC3. In WC3 you absolutely need at least 150 speed in battle to be among the best. Most WC3 experts have even more, up to 300 (with spam of course). Especially the koreans are fast, they are crazy P
KIWI_Rootfifth
10-05-2005 04:40:25
give me an example of what u mean by "spam"?...like setting way points to wood camps? or?....
AU_knobi
10-05-2005 05:06:06
yes, spamming is doing the same action multiple times. like setting a wp 10 times instead of 1 or putting inf on 1, cav on 2 then 121212121212121212 ;)
Sicilian
10-05-2005 12:44:45
I don't really get how that helps you concentrate? Guess I should try it first though.
KIWI_Rootfifth
10-05-2005 14:04:34
lol i know sic ;(..............................but can u guys explain something to me?..ive seen recs of shad completly owning really good players that have a speed of like 80, but he's speed will be like at 55 or something lol
Goofy
10-05-2005 17:02:33
Thats because you don't need more than 55 speed in RoN if you never waste a click. Spamming itself does not improve your game, but some players find it helpful to keep concentrated. In a game like WC3 it's also possible to be really good and have like 80 speed, but all the best players have at least 150. Most have 200+, but thats because in WC3 it's so important to be ready and concentrated once a battle starts, so you spam keys in between battles. RoN is a very slow game compared to WC3, and micro is not as important so therefore spamming is not as helpful either.
Beertender
11-05-2005 02:28:01
With good micro in ron you can win an army larger than your own tottally changing the course of the game...
In WCIII though its even more important ^^
AU_tl
11-05-2005 07:39:01
I think micro is more important in WCIII than ron b/c of the tech tree & being able to garrison in ron. You can retreat from a battle, garrison, age then attack in Ron. It's much more suitable for defense than WC3 where if you aren't ready for a fight it's much harder to retreat and counter attack. I dunno, I'm a WC3 (and ron!) noob though so maybe I don't know what the hell I'm talking about D.
AU_knobi
11-05-2005 09:52:36
tl, you are absolutely right in my opinion. wc3 is really 95% micro - i mean you can collect gold+wood, and it doesnt take any effort to do that (esp nightelve). the other 5% you decide what units and when to ex and thats that. rest micro.
i think the fighting "at home" bonus is wc3 bigger though, because there are more possibilities = micro to do then in ron (just think of the shop)
still i must agree with tearbender that micro is really important. if u leave the units to do whatever they wanna to do then the only thing they do is crap )
i find the units ki often attacking the counter to themselve which of course only makes sense for themselves. theyre missing the big picture ;)
in my opinion its still very important the to pull out wounded, attack the right units, and enlarge/pull back the short/larger wing. i do that only in the first ages though where the loss of a unit hurts much more then later on.
q is there a key for showing the health of all units without selecting them ??
AU_tl
11-05-2005 11:30:36
I wrote a little diatribe about this in regards to ron vs. other rts's at the mor site
http//www.mastersleague.net/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=204
. I agree with Beer that micro is important in ron, especially in the earlier ages. As the game gets older though, knowledge about the game (rares, wonders, etc.) become more important than micro I think. I sometimes don't really micro once I get past age IV unless it's a really important battle just cause I'm too lazy. If I'm an age up I usually attack move & go do econ maintenance elsewhere while my units pwn D.
[quote7dfbc69df7]q is there a key for showing the health of all units without selecting them ??[/quote7dfbc69df7]
Not that I know of. This is something I've always wanted in ron- some way to show in the UI a health bar (and energy bars for spies/generals/scouts) over all of my units even while unselected. It'd make microing sooo much easier.
- tl
TwC_ñuuK
11-05-2005 11:49:10
I kept pressing the show health button on RoN after playing wc3 lawl ;( would be v useful on RoN, but I must say that RoN has the best hotkeys that an RTS that I ever tried has had )
AU_DreAdKnIGhT
11-05-2005 18:04:19
[quote2855325ea9="TwC_ñuuK"]I kept pressing the show health button on RoN after playing wc3 lawl ;( would be v useful on RoN, but I must say that RoN has the best hotkeys that an RTS that I ever tried has had )[/quote2855325ea9]
lol when i play ron i always press the show health button (alt)too... in ron if u press too fast its not good... i had a game yesterday, i pressed too fast and ron is not fast enough to response(no action happened),especialy pressing for waypoints lol
TwC_ñuuK
11-05-2005 20:29:29
the waypoint spam always worked with me )
Beertender
12-05-2005 09:56:12
Well i don't micro past VII P
AU_BonGs
21-05-2005 18:54:52
[quoteda048a498e="AU_Rambozo"]True
I get 80 plus vs niDe or tl. Cos I know I gots t work.
A lot of games I'm so relaxed it's silly, completely bombed drinking coffee and smoking/rolling cigarettes in game so half it's played one handed.
Who's tried practising on fast then returning to normal. I have done slow drills as I learn/develop strats. Could this (a lot of it) have slowed me?
I'm certainly not concerned of my movement efficiency, just te speed.[/quoteda048a498e]
You roll your own cigarettes? here is something that might help.... buy a bong and a carton of Malboros.